Comments on: Phishing in Open Access Waters http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2013/01/31/phishing-in-open-access-waters/ Responses to Media and Culture Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:35:04 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.7.5 By: Jonathan Gray http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2013/01/31/phishing-in-open-access-waters/comment-page-1/#comment-392154 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 03:08:33 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=17522#comment-392154 Kyle, I realize my aside got muddled. My point about books, though, is that much of the excitement about OA comes from a spirit of wanting one’s work to be something that “regular people” can get a hold of … and books can deliver along those lines. I don’t see them as a “model” per se, and my suggestion isn’t that journals should be priced in line with books: it’s just that we might realize that, say, choosing to publish one’s work in a $25 NYU Press book might make it as or even way more “accessible” than publishing it in many otherwise fine OA sites.

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By: Kyle Conway http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2013/01/31/phishing-in-open-access-waters/comment-page-1/#comment-392127 Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:59:47 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=17522#comment-392127 This is an interesting post, and I agree about the value of a good edited collection. (For what it’s worth, I’m at a university where an edited collection and a monograph count the same for tenure and promotion, but for reasons that aren’t necessarily as forward-looking as what you suggest.)

But I don’t think I’m quite tracking what you mean when you describe books as a model for open access — the fee to access them, per se, is their purchase price, although that fee is lower than, say, the $37 Taylor and Francis would charge me for electronic access to a single article, or the $165 it would charge me for access to a full issue. Are you just talking about degrees of openness, or am I missing something?

There’s also the question of publication subsidies. As a Canadian, you might know that university presses in Canada follow a different model than in the U.S. Whereas in the U.S., as I understand it, presses are subsidized by the universities that house them, in Canada, authors must apply for a subsidy (about $8000) either from the Aid to Scholarly Publications Program run by the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada or from their home universities. (Non-Canadians have to find other sources — back before Harper cut funding to the Dept. of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, it ran a program to funnel money through national Canadian studies scholarly organizations.) This is true even of the top presses — McGill-Queen’s, U of Toronto, etc. — and adds an extra layer of peer review and an additional barrier to publication.

On a related note, for a good list of predatory journals, see scholarlyoa.com, which is run by Jeffrey Beall at the University of Colorado, Denver.

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By: Kristina Busse http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2013/01/31/phishing-in-open-access-waters/comment-page-1/#comment-392118 Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:04:32 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=17522#comment-392118 You are right. They have subscription fees, but when you access the essay, it’s accessible. Kinda wish it hadn’t been… 😀

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By: Jonathan Gray http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2013/01/31/phishing-in-open-access-waters/comment-page-1/#comment-392116 Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:03:03 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=17522#comment-392116 I’ve benefited WAY more from reviews I’ve received from my books than from ones I’ve received from my articles, so I want to defend the level of peer review there. Granted, not all publishers are the same, as with OA, but the better ones do a better job. Same with pricing. An NYU Press book costs about $20-25, which is a really good deal. Besides, book publishers put more effort into getting one’s work out there — sometimes anemically, but sometimes more impressively — which strikes me as part of access (availability is only part of the issue, after all: knowing it’s there and being directed to it is the other part). I don’t think this should be the all and end all of an access strategy, but I think it’s part of it

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By: Jonathan Gray http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2013/01/31/phishing-in-open-access-waters/comment-page-1/#comment-392115 Thu, 31 Jan 2013 18:58:29 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=17522#comment-392115 the carts cost nothing, though, so yeah, I think it is. It said it was, and who am I to trust their integrity, given what a good show they make of it in their business practices? 😉

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By: Jonathan Sterne http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2013/01/31/phishing-in-open-access-waters/comment-page-1/#comment-392086 Thu, 31 Jan 2013 16:21:06 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=17522#comment-392086 Jonathan — I agree that for-profit open access is a corruption of a basically good idea, but I disagree that open access journals cost almost nothing. I don’t know much about IJoC’s finances, but I do know they have (or had) a managing editor paid off an endowment (someone has to contact reviewers and shepherd things through the publication process), and they also pay for copyediting and layout work. On top of that, they either have to pay or their institution pays for server space, bandwidth, support, etc., and presumably the design and layout of the journal cost money. The latter could be obviated by something like an OJS template, but then do we want all journals to look the same?

Journals and books are very much supported by academics “free” labor, but they have traditionally also depended on crucial forms of paid labor, which make them difficult if not impossible to maintain in a revenue-free context, even if you subtract the cost and labor associated with producing a physical edition mailed to readers for a fee. If you don’t believe me, look at the trouble a journal like Dancecult is having right now.

In a climate where universities are doing less than ever to support journal editorship, this is a real problem. It used to be a journal editor got at least a half time assistantship (either from the school or the journal) as well as a course release for their work. Now, that’s harder to come by. . . .

Finally, a word on paying to publish. Again, I would never give money to a for-profit journal, but in some sciences and medicine, where work is supported off grants, researchers routinely pay a publication fee (off the grant) after an article is accepted via the peer review process. It has the potential to corrupt, but a nonprofit status and a high ratio of submitted to accepted papers ameliorates that somewhat. I realize that’s unlikely to happen in the US humanities, but that’s how it works in other contexts, and it’s one way to insure open access journals are able to be run properly.

What I really want to know is how much an organization like ICA collects per journal, and how that figure relates to the costs involved in producing a purely digital edition if you got rid of subscription revenue (valuable to the press, but not necessarily to the association)

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By: Kristina Busse http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2013/01/31/phishing-in-open-access-waters/comment-page-1/#comment-392080 Thu, 31 Jan 2013 15:29:40 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=17522#comment-392080 Sorry to leave a second comment, but…the phishing email that you shared here doesn’t go to an OA journal, does it? It has little checkout carts next to articles, which suggests that it’s not OA.

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By: Kristina Busse http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2013/01/31/phishing-in-open-access-waters/comment-page-1/#comment-392078 Thu, 31 Jan 2013 15:20:18 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=17522#comment-392078 Jonathan, interesting post that addresses some of the pitfalls of OA, though I’m not sure that we won’t be able to sort out the good from the bad. (As coeditor of a Gold Open Access peer-reviewed journal, keeping our standards high is pretty much our number 1 priority other than getting things out on time 🙂

And I’m certainly not sure moving to books is the answer. For one, they also cost money, which is exactly what was the problem in the first place. Academic books aren’t cheap, and especially with essay collections, many of the articles might not even be relevant. And the quality control is not necessarily guaranteed. We can certainly discuss the merits and problems of peer review, but it is at least one form of attempting to guarantee a level of quality. How many academic books have you read recently that looked like they weren’t even copyedited? (Last collection I did, the publisher had SKIPPED the copyedit entirely!)

As for reaching a community beyond academia with your essays–I know that TWC (http://journal.transformativeworks.org) has it easier than many journals on other subjects, but we certainly are read, cited, and discussed outside of a mere academic audience. So, it is possible. But as you note, it takes time and effort.

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