I especially like http://815sentencesaboutlost.com/ .

Okay, onto a few clarifications: First, I’m sorry if I’m implied that there’s a specific goal here to either glorify “the man” or devalue “the man.” (Both in the sense of the power machinations of western society as well as, well, the gender. Hey, I’m rooting for the guys on LOST, even Locke, just not the creature formerly known as MIB and that some of us call FLocke. And I’m iffy on the whole Widmore thing, even his sideways persona is discomfiting.) Neither glory nor devaluation is, IMHO, appropriate in life or in the story, we’re all human, we’re all worthy of love and redemption. I was trying to suggest that the creators may be considering through character study how humanity can evolve through individual acts of redemption, which in turn breaks a dysfunctional cycle that has become entrenched in western society. There is, however, simply no way to know the endgame of the creators until “The End.” Maybe they didn’t go into it with the goal, maybe this is just the read of some of the fans, or maybe they realized as they were fully immersed that this was an opportunity. Who knows? Who cares? It’s their baby to do with as they please, and because they were kind enough to share it, it’s our perogative to see it as we please.

Second, on the issue of Sawyer/James and MIB and lying, I stand by my comments. Both are good at disingenuousness, withholding, denial, and misdirection. Are they honest? I would say, oh, not so much. They’re con men, magicians, tricksters, this is what they do. (I would suggest, as have others, that their character arcs are “long cons,” and that may even apply to the whole show.) Lying by omission is still deceitful. But I’ve rarely if ever heard either outright *lie*, and con artists and magicians also rarely lie, because to carry out a long con or an elaborate illusion, you have to keep your story straight. Lies trap and trip you up and screw up your con. I grew up with a pathological liar in my family who actually thought he had the skills of the confidence man (he didn’t for the reason I just stated), so I’m very attentive to the difference between liars and confidence men. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear on my observation about those characters. Feel free to agree to disagree, but if you do, maybe you’ll see what I mean when you watch the series again.

As for the goal of art, that’s a long discussion for another day, but, in a couple of paragraphs, I’ll say this: My own experience has been that art works best when it leaves room for the beholder to be immersed in it based on their on life experience. (And who among this group hasn’t been immersed – for better and for worse – in LOST?) The artists have very specific ideas about what they want to express, but the best artists also let go of it when they put it “out there,” knowing full well that those who appreciate their work will see it through the lens of their own experience. With luck, those appreciating the work will at least “get” the major gist of it, but will no doubt have differing views on subtexts and so on. Team Darlton has been explicit that they will enter “radio silence” for some weeks after the finale (probably at least until after the DVD release) so that fans can absorb the story each in his or her own way, that there will be no “spoon-feeding.” (I think I read that on EW.com.) I find that respectful, and uncharacteristic of much mass media. I appreciate it, even though I’m sure there will be frustrating unanswered questions. (The outrigger firefight, for example, I will vetch about that FOREVER if Darlton is true to its word and fails to give us a clue we can live with when they KNOW who was shooting at the time flashers.) Over time, those will fade in the wake of the major thrust of the story and what I took away from it.

I probably don’t need to cite examples for this group, but I will anyway (yeah yeah yeah), when I first read Sylvia Plath’s “Daddy”, Shakespeare’s “Macbeth,” and T.S. Eliot’s “Wasteland” in school, I read them like a teenager. They are favorites, so I revisit them periodically, and I see new things every time, and appreciate nuances teenagers don’t have the experience to understand. When I saw “The Sixth Sense,” I could not WAIT to see the movie again because of the ending. It was a few months before I was able to, however, and it not only allowed me to suss out all the stuff that surprised me so much because of the ending, but it also allowed me to see nuances I didn’t catch on the first pass. I’ve said often that LOST will be like “The Sixth Sense” for me, and I already have my DVD on pre-order, and will be counting the weeks to the end of August.

Okay, that’s enough wordiness from me for today, thanks again everyone for the replies. Looking forward to discussing tonight *penultimate* installment. (And now we get to use the actual word in all it’s glory and without the extra prefix. 😉 )

Kindness to you all.

MIB told Kate her Daughter was in the temple for 3 years.

And Sawyer lied to the cast away for virtually six years. It is only lately when he lies to MIB about his intentions that it is even more fun getting behind the eyes and heart of the Con Man we have come to know. We know he is lying as soon as he says things in Season 6.

Sadly we are at the end.

“.. I think it is a deliberate choice that our female and minority characters are dying, sidelined, or turned into “rejects and crazies.”

Perhaps. When Eko was killed, I was pissed. Mostly because I grew to like the character. When Walt became an after thought, I thought it sucked as early on the writers led us to believe he was special. Claire going crazy, Juliet getting killed (new series probably had a lot to do with that also :–), Illana & Sayid getting blown up and I could go on and on.

None of these did I ever think was “The Man” trying to keep Women and Minorities down.

For every Minority and Woman that was killed or gone crazy, I can name many many White Characters Mostly Men that were also killed both major and minor characters.

Again from my earlier post if you look at the story in light of what it was intended to be (whatever that is :–), the idea of “The Man” indiscrimantely killing the Non-whites just doesn’t seem to fit as I think before the Finale is done almost EVERYBODY will be Dead in Island Reality.

If there is one thing we know about this show, it is a war of Attrition. Whatever is really going on: Good vs Evil, Fate vs Free Will, Choice vs No Choice Virtually everyone is going to die, Man/Woman/Minority/Non-Minority!

The old corny phrases, Many are Called but the choosen are few comes to mind.

One of Jacob’s most telling lines in the series was something to the effect, you only have to get it (whatever it is, change etc) right ONCE and everything before that is just progress when referring to MIB’s statement the Man keeps coming to the island, killing and nothing EVER changes.

So while, if you put a Gender Bias filter on, you can point to Women and Minorities who get killed, go crazy and in the end, there may only be one White Man and if Kate makes it a White Woman standing. I still don’t think that is an epic hit for gender in art as this series had many wonderful roles for Minorities and Women through out.

However, my feeling goes along the lines of what Jacob said. I think there will be a Reset and all the killings and going Crazies will be resolved in whatever timeline we are left with as a result of choices that Men & Women (Minorities & Non-Minorites), Humans will have to make.

But I think I get your overall point. And I’m sure you realize Lost probably was not trying to scale or even inform the Human Condition relative to Gender Politics or the role of women in literature/story telling.

I think they were just trying to tell their story will all of the internal, cultural and blind spot biases that ANY storyteller(s) would have.

For an Anglo-Saxon, mostly traditional Old Boys Network, relative to their portrayal of women in this series I think they did ok.

Which is not to say some of the criticism, bias already highlighted here and other places doesnt’ have Merit as I believe it does.

I’m just of that opinion, at the end of the day, you have to judge a piece of art/work/literature on what the authors/creators intended it to do/be etc.

To overlay and juxtapose , global ideological issues on a piece of work that never set out to address, solve or even highlight those issues to some extent misses the point of the work.

And yet, I think I understand, through a gender politic lens or more closely to your words, through a Human lens you can see the vestige of male dominated, written, etc. etc. story lines

But really, isn’t this ground breaking series in so many ways TV Series, still a complex, riviting, intellictual joy ride, with said Gender weaknesses?