Comments on: A Showrunner Goes To War: Doctor Who and the Almost Fans? http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2011/06/06/a-showrunner-goes-to-war-doctor-who-and-the-almost-fans/ Responses to Media and Culture Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:35:04 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.7.5 By: Matthew Kilburn http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2011/06/06/a-showrunner-goes-to-war-doctor-who-and-the-almost-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-93919 Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:02:56 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=9634#comment-93919 Interesting – I’ve long wanted to put together some notes on the changing attitudes of Doctor Who fandom towards ‘spoilers’, given that the fandom itself predates the term. I’ve got some material but need to sort it out, and coming from outside the field I’d need to establish a framework.

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By: SpeakerToAnimals http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2011/06/06/a-showrunner-goes-to-war-doctor-who-and-the-almost-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-93318 Wed, 15 Jun 2011 12:28:45 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=9634#comment-93318 I’d also be wary of dismissing Moffat’s argument as ‘paternalistic’ as fans in possession of spoilers are as much in a position of power as the production team in that they too can decide whether to give away plot details to people who do not wish to hear them and so dictate the way the text is read.

The simplistic dichotomy between ‘paternalistic’ producers and ‘powerless’ fans masks unequal power relations *within* fandom.

I’ve only ever blocked one person on my email because he insisted on sending me BSG spoilers after I had asked him to stop. Those with the resources to download programmes from overseas are generally wealthier and more technologically more savvy than those who do not: to claim that they are ‘challenging’ the dominance of the author without recognising their own power over poorer, or less IT literate viewers, is to mask another power game as ‘resistance’.

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By: SpeakerToAnimals http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2011/06/06/a-showrunner-goes-to-war-doctor-who-and-the-almost-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-93311 Wed, 15 Jun 2011 09:53:26 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=9634#comment-93311 I’d liken spoilers to heckling. Its like shouting out a punchline before its ready to be delivered in order to look clever, when, in fact, the heckler has merely seen the routine during rehearsals.

You can argue that its ‘free speech’ but the result is that those who are presenting an argument – and Moffat’s stories are more erotetic than RTD, who had other priorities, in that they follow a a premise through to a logical conclusion – are ultimately silenced by being prevented from doing so in the manner his ‘argument’ requires.

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By: Myles McNutt http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2011/06/06/a-showrunner-goes-to-war-doctor-who-and-the-almost-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-91486 Wed, 08 Jun 2011 06:19:31 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=9634#comment-91486 For the record, I yell at TV Guide and equivalents for spoilers all the time. But that’s just me. 🙂

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By: Matt Hills http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2011/06/06/a-showrunner-goes-to-war-doctor-who-and-the-almost-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-91438 Tue, 07 Jun 2011 23:49:27 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=9634#comment-91438 Thanks, Mel, I’m glad you enjoyed the post. I’ve just suggested above that perhaps we need a whole new terminology in place of the ‘spoiler’, but you are quite right, we also need to think more carefully about types and degrees of ‘spoiler’ — perhaps analytically developing a sort of spoiler hierarchy or taxonomy. (What’s the collective noun for spoilers? A subforum? An outrage?).

Jason suggests that it’s the moment of broadcast that is crucial — once a show’s been shown then it’s open season on fan speculation, whereas narrative information circulated in advance of TX is a spoiling spoiler. But obviously this begs the question as to where different national transmissions fit in, meaning that transnational online fan cultures either recompose themselves at a national level, or that fan etiquette and communal norms have to be developed to avoid upsetting fellow travellers (though even there, I suspect there are limits to whether and how that can work — if one country is months or even years behind another, then it seems unlikely that ‘spoiler’ fan discussions will not reach the ‘lagging’ group).

I also like your mention of casting spoilers — seemingly another mode of spoiler, since this level of information reveals character involvements/appearances without necessarily giving away any other narrative detail. Cast lists are certainly readable (and are read) by some fans as spoilers, even when they are official programme information.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that a large-scale empirical research project — or at the very least a new edited collection — is called for on fans’ attitudes to ‘spoilers’ (what spoilers are; extents and degrees thereof; differences and similarities across different fan cultures; divisions within specific fandoms etc). Spoilers aren’t just an incitement to fan productivity — they should be inciting more academic debate too, following the sort of work already done by Jason and Jon Gray.

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By: Matt Hills http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2011/06/06/a-showrunner-goes-to-war-doctor-who-and-the-almost-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-91437 Tue, 07 Jun 2011 23:24:49 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=9634#comment-91437 Thanks, Kristina, and sorry I’ve not replied until now (been away external examining today). I find it intriguing that attitudes to spoilers can vary so much even between acafans (!), e.g. Jason’s stance — enjoying being subjected to a creative’s vision — versus your own take on wanting to perhaps feel greater mastery over a text. I don’t spoiler myself quite as aggressively, but I usually enjoy spoilers, even very major ones. And I agree that “the object” of the text is a tricky thing to isolate, despite taking Jason’s point that he’s not referring to a “pure text” but rather to a “core” aesthetic artefact. Nonetheless, I can’t help but feel that showrunners overstep their mark when they wish away textual poaching altogether, and construct or posit a “right” way to read ‘their’ show. This ‘rightness’ strikes me as itself discursive or extratextual; it’s supposedly a given — just ‘in’ the text — yet it’s supplementary, an extra-textual addition insisted upon in interviews, tweets, or promotion.

I wonder if it’s about time to analytically rename ‘spoilers’, as the term obviously carries a sense of ‘spoiling’ narrative pleasure, implying that that pleasure is (or otherwise should be) a given, somehow ‘natural’ and self-evident. But what if so-called ‘spoilers’ are felt to be ‘enhancers’, provoking cognitive productivity (how will that story development play out? what could that mean? is that convincing?) and enabling further audience speculation? For at least some fans, spoilers don’t so much ‘spoil’ a “proper’ reading as offer a short-cut to enjoyable and valued activities of speculation. Perhaps what so upsets showrunners is the sense that audiences are almost skipping the main course (the core text) to get straight to dessert (audience speculation and discussion). ‘Spoilers’ — or enablers, or enhancers — thus seem to make fan collectivities and debates more affectively vital than the audience-text relation that showrunners aim to commodify, create and cultivate.

Showrunners want an ontology (of the beloved text); what they’re sometimes unhappily confronted by are fan epistemologies — what can be known, and how, and when, and what does it mean?

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By: Kristina Busse http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2011/06/06/a-showrunner-goes-to-war-doctor-who-and-the-almost-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-91427 Tue, 07 Jun 2011 17:04:14 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=9634#comment-91427 Oh, and I forgot to share another great spoiler debacle I came across last week and y’all may not have seen yet: Twitter Glee prom episode spoiler with firing threads by showrunner and…

Also, how much am I loving that this seems the first time the subscribe to comments feature’s actually working on Antenna!

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By: Kristina Busse http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2011/06/06/a-showrunner-goes-to-war-doctor-who-and-the-almost-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-91426 Tue, 07 Jun 2011 16:58:38 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=9634#comment-91426 Oh Jason, how I wish I could inevitably push back 🙂 But I’m actually much more conflicted about this issue, because I do understand that the power relation is necessarily imbalanced and that there are indeed good reasons to give up that control.

The place where I’m torn is the issue Matt brings up in his comment, namely where the control and where the text begins and ends. I have actually heard as many hardcore nonspoiler fans complain about nonfannish spoilers (opening TV Guide or an accidental twitter) than they do about fannish ones (usually involving debates about cut tags and whether an emotional response constitutes a spoiler and…)

Because as much as we want to think of auteurs as single independent geniuses, they are not. Not only are there actors and production personal, there are networks and…in short, the authorial domination may indeed be corrupted on any number of levels, and whose spoilers are authorially condoned and whose aren’t?

Or said differently, why is TV Guide OK to spoil and doesn’t get yelled at but random fanboy is? Like Matt, I’m not quite comfortable with establishing these clear lines, and that’s only in part because I don’t like “being manipulated, tricked, surprised, and taken for an emotional ride” 🙂

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By: Jason Mittell http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2011/06/06/a-showrunner-goes-to-war-doctor-who-and-the-almost-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-91418 Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:24:22 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=9634#comment-91418 From the creators’ standpoint, marketing/promotion departments can be spoilery, and in the US at least, producers have very little control of that aspect of paratextual circulation. (Matt Weiner has been over-the-top in his policing of AMC’s promotions of Mad Men, refusing circulation of critic’s screeners, pushing for promos with no plot, etc.) Darlton was never quite as vehement, but they did freak out a bit when the s3 finale’s twist was leaked.

While I don’t believe there is a “pure text” and everything else is extraneous, I also think there is a core text that’s designed to be consumed in a particular way. It doesn’t have to be, and folks like Kristina are free to develop their own reading strategy, but the producers should feel free to assert their intentions that there is a way to read it “properly” (i.e. following their intent). Again, for me the line is when the text is released in its intended form (episode airing, in this case) – before that, posting information summarizing the plot angers creators in a way that I’m sympathetic to. But after that, it becomes part of the larger dialog.

As for the issues you & Kristina raise about the power relations involved here, I agree but willingly submit to the domination – the process of being told a story is in part about submission to another person’s creative vision. There’s always resistance & interplay (it’s Foucauldian power), but it’s not a level playing field – and I don’t think that most fans want it to be. The joys in being manipulated, tricked, surprised, and taken for an emotional ride are crucial to the act of narrative consumption. I think authorial lamentations about this issue are less because they want total control, but because they see this joy being thwarted & don’t understand why people would give up that pleasure (that such fanboy auteurs embrace).

(Ducking for inevitable pushback from Kristina…)

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By: Matt Hills http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2011/06/06/a-showrunner-goes-to-war-doctor-who-and-the-almost-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-91409 Tue, 07 Jun 2011 09:33:06 +0000 http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/?p=9634#comment-91409 Thanks for your comments, Jason — and for a useful reminder of the piece on spoilers that yourself and Jon produced. I wonder whether the LOST producers were as vitriolic as Davies and Moffat have been in their opposition to sectors of online fandom, as the tone of the NuWho showrunners’ comments does seem quite pronounced. Also, I’m fascinated that you consider spoilers to bastardize or effectvely rework the text — would you include ‘official’ paratexts in that process of textual distortion, e.g. episode synopses in the press/publicity materials etc? Or do you subscribe to the view — vocally expressed by some Who fans — that official programme info and promotional paratexts *can’t* be spoilers, by definition? To me, this spoiler/teaser binary doesn’t seem workable, so I’d argue that the BBC’s own marketing of Who always-already bastardizes ‘the text’ — it isn’t just fans who ‘spoiler’ the transmitted TV show. For instance, the official BBC synopsis for ‘A Good Man Goes To War’ revealed some key aspects of the ending to ‘The Almost People’, and was in the public domain several weeks before broadcast! And famously, a Radio Times cover of Dalek-human hybrid Sec revealed the cliffhanger ending to one NuWho episode the week before it was broadcast, something which hugely annoyed many fans.

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