Comments on: Managing the Academic Job Market: How Not to Lose Your Mind

By: Josh S.

Josh S. — Mon, 03 Sep 2012 19:55:23 +0000

Thanks for this useful advice.

By: Jason Mittell

Jason Mittell — Sun, 02 Sep 2012 20:20:33 +0000

Tim,

I’ve used the sports draft analogy too, but with two essential caveats: unlike professional sports, universities & colleges are often in small towns in less-than-desirable (at least on first appearance) places to live, rather than major metropolitan areas. And no matter where you’re “drafted,” odds are you’ll have to move somewhere to get a starting wage that puts you in the lower-middle-class, with limited room for growth (unlike the guaranteed or potential millions for athletes). Yes, you might be able to move up the ladder to the “big leagues,” but even then, there are no endorsement contracts or signing bonuses awarded to superstars.

The analogy I’ve used to talk about the academic job market is a poker tournament: you’re competing with other players of relatively equal skill, but even if you play the game perfectly, odds are that you’ll lose due to circumstances beyond your control. It’s really hard to win if you’re not very good, but it takes more than skill to come out on top.

By: Kelli Marshall

Kelli Marshall — Sun, 02 Sep 2012 19:40:22 +0000

Hostile??? Sorry to hear that. Applying and interviewing for jobs = stressful enough without that kind of foolishness!

By: Courtney Brannon Donoghue

Courtney Brannon Donoghue — Sun, 02 Sep 2012 19:07:17 +0000

Thanks for sharing your experience, Marnie. We could write an entire other post on the challenges of balancing the academic market with your partner’s and/or kid’s needs. Having a partner with a solid job (and future advancement possibilities) outside of academia makes for a different experience. Rethinking where you can apply or live is central (a rural or even small town university setting would not have worked for my husband’s profession). Not to mention asking that partner to give up a good job to follow you takes a huge leap of faith for each of you. Thanks for reminding us things are more complicated than a black and white view of the market as apply and go where to gig takes you.

By: Courtney Brannon Donoghue

Courtney Brannon Donoghue — Sun, 02 Sep 2012 18:51:54 +0000

Thanks for this analogy, Tim. Really love the draft comparison and plan to use it in the future. I too struggled with the right way to tell family, friends, or anybody who asked. I can’t even tell you the amount of time I spent explaining why my department wouldn’t just hire me after I finished my PhD there. Luckily, most of it comes from genuine curiosity about the university system.

By: Courtney Brannon Donoghue

Courtney Brannon Donoghue — Sun, 02 Sep 2012 18:46:24 +0000

Kelli, I am sorry to hear someone told you that. How insensitive and inaccurate. The whole idea of “ship sailing” seems reductive. The age factor is tricky. I have had a number of friends in their late-30s to mid-40s obtain visiting, postdocs, and TT jobs. I agree with Jonathan because my age never felt like a leg up. There were times when a search committee or two were quite hostile to my age (my younger appearance making it worse). This led to questions about my ability to relate to students looking for a real job or my lack of practical experience (i.e. outside of education system). I imagine these perceptions vary by department and depend greatly on department culture and ages of the faculty. Cynthia is right that a serious conversation is needed.

By: Jonathan Gray

Jonathan Gray — Sun, 02 Sep 2012 04:46:39 +0000

I dunno about that. I’ve seen plenty of schools hire older recently, even at the Asst. Prof. level. If the dept is old itself, chances are that committee members aren’t thinking 20 years down the line, just about the next 5 to 10 till they retire (besides, I think that most programs now know that the chances of good faculty being poached in a twenty year timeframe is so high that you can’t make decisions based on that), and there’s also a chance that youth will seem naive and inexperienced to them. As I think of assistant prof hires I know in recent years, I think youth hasn’t had much of a leg up on age … except when the age isn’t accompanied by a sense of accomplishment (ie: 45 with life experiences and/or great publication record is okay; 45 without much on the CV is a kiss of death).

By: Kelli Marshall

Kelli Marshall — Sat, 01 Sep 2012 22:18:08 +0000

You’re right, Cynthia. In fact, my dissertation advisor fell into that category (this was her second career, hired when she was over 40, etc.). So I know it happens. 🙂

And, yes, I do think the (unfortunate) “ship has sailed” comment was referring to the preference of committees to hire someone fresh out of a program, not my biological clock or anything like that (!). After all, with the (ridiculous) amount of time committees spend on an academic search, they are making an investment they hope will pay off for 25+ years or so. Someone’s who’s pushing 50 (or even 40 perhaps?) is less attractive for an Assistant Professor position, I’m guessing…

Thanks for the well wishes!

By: Cynthia B. Meyers

Cynthia B. Meyers — Sat, 01 Sep 2012 19:40:34 +0000

Academia is full of people on their second (or third) careers; it is one of the few fields that does not demand that entry level positions be filled by workers in their 20s. Your age should not be a barrier and I am surprised that someone ever told you that it could be. I landed my first tenure-track job at age 44; a good friend of mine landed her first at age 53.

Could the comment you received (about a ship having sailed) have been a reference to the preference of many hiring committees for fresh PhDs rather than stale ones?

Perhaps we should have a serious conversation about that!

Sending best wishes for a successful search this year.

By: Marnie Binfied

Marnie Binfied — Sat, 01 Sep 2012 14:24:20 +0000

Thanks, Courtney!

It’s hard for me to say this and folks might not want to hear it, but I hit a point where I had to re-evaluate. I have a partner with a great (non-academic) gig in Austin and little kids and just could not uproot the whole thing for a low paying job where ever they would take me. My grace period on the loans was over and I had to get a J.O.B.
I like my job and, although I still sometimes mess with my own head about not living up to my potential and all the what ifs and what could have beens, switching paths has worked for me. And helped me not go crazy!